What the church needs today is not more machinery or better, not new organizations or more and novel methods but people who the Holy Spirit can use - people of prayer, mighty people of prayer. The Holy Spirit does not flow through methods, but through people. He does not come on machinery, but on people. He does not annoint plans, but people, people of prayer.EM Bounds...paraphrased....
Thoughts?
10 comments:
I agree that God works through people, but I think that most North Americans need to become more aware of the needs out there to become effective prayers. We tend to be so comfortable in our lives that we are not in tune with what God wants to do through us. It is amazing how trials can bring us quickly to our knees.
prayer...prayer...prayer.
I believe 100% that I wouldn't be here where I am if it were not for the prayers of many people, especially my mothers.
Having spent a week at IHOP (international house of prayer) I saw and experienced an awakening. A prayer movement that is seeking God first. It was amazing.
Pray without ceasing came into light for me. That is isn't just about going into my prayer closet all alone, in the dark, but fostering a life of prayer at all times. Am I quick to pray, or am I quick to slander? Am I quick to pray, or do I run to the doctor?
Do I pray about everything?
I want to pray more!
Isn't it ironic: in Hell there will be millions saying, "God, why the hell wasn't I told about this! You are just, yet you damn the ignorant! Don't tell me that I can't understand Your justice. If I know your omniscient and omnipotent, then surely your justice must be comprehendable!".
Anony....
I struggled to allow your post because I was trying to figure out what it had to do with the orginal post. I asked for "Thoughts" and you gave yours.....
So there it is!
This is another reminder that church is not a building or event but a group of followers of Jesus Christ
I agree fully with EM Bounds that we definitely need "people of prayer" and all that this entails (which seems to be a lost art form of sorts)... (I want this more and more for myself!)
...Yet, I find myself wrestling with this a lot... It seems that somewhere one of the byproducts and expressions of the "power of prayer" should be greater wisdom and understanding.
...Does such wisdom, actually give insight into how things could be done "better" and more intentional...
...Is the Holy Spirit interested in us doing things "better"? Does the process of "making disciples" happen without intentionality?
...Perhaps we need more praying people and (also) need methods (maybe even new ones).
...If the goal of the methods (systems) is to better connect people (hearts/souls), wouldn't God also desire to flow through these means...?
I don't think God cares whether we pray to Him or not.
When you treat "prayer" as an abstract object, you begin to think of it in quantitative terms, i.e, "If only we had more people praying; then God would do more miracles."
I would agree with the statement that the church does not need more novel methods (the seeker-sensitive movement) to do more good.
So, maybe God doesn't care whether we go to church or not, since there's never been or never will be that "perfect church".
I think God's probably pretty relaxed about stuff like praying and church (you probably could find evidence for that in the Bible). I would be dissapointed in God if the only measure of a true Christian was only by how much they read their Bible, prayed, tithed, or went to Church.
So, just work out your own salvation, and let the rest be up to God.
May God not damn us all,
Chester
Chester,
"In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express" - Romans 8:26.
Why would God then intercede on our behalf in prayers if he simply did not care if we prayed to him?
"Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus" - 1
Thessalonians 5:16-18
If God's will is for us to pray continually, then it seems to me like he cares if we pray to him.
All due respect, but I believe that God does care whether we pray to Him or not.
Prayer is not meant to be thought of in quantitative terms either. No where in the Bible does it say that the more people praying the more effective the prayer.
"…The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective" - James 5:16
Man = Singular.
Jordan,
Your point is well made. However, I still think that if a Christian never prayed they would still be just as well of as if they did.
"Praying" to God is not the same as talking to another human being. There are no qualities in this type of communication that can be compared to human-to-human conversation.
I think part of my argument lies in the definition of prayer. What does it mean to pray?
Suppose we never prayed to God. Then would we really lose connection with Him? I don't ever talk to my Dog (which is ironically God spelled backwards), but I still enjoy some level of a relationship with him.
To me prayer is communication with God.
I disagree that you can have a connection without communication. Relationships with other species notwithstanding I have yet to see a friendship, marriage, business partnership etc. survive let alone thrive without communication.
It might even be said that the reasons all of these fail is that at some level a breakdown in communication happened.
The image of God as distant and uncaring seems irreconcilable with the image of God as a loving Father who sent his Son to die for us.
Just my thoughts.
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